Don't know if you saw my question that was part of the comments to your post about the weekend:
Did you tell Morris that we were taking steps to get Mom into a nursing home? If yes, what was his response? Any idea where he stands on this from anything you discussed?
Additional question: what was his response on our care strategy? Did he support it or have any comments on it?
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I didn't tell Morris "we were taking steps to put Mom in a nursing home" since I didn't really think we were doing that, at least not right now. I did say that Tim had visited a number of places when he was here in June and that we would all be reviewing the alternatives at some point.** I don't think this was news to Morris since he spent some time with Tim when he was here.
I did walk Morris through the care plan and he seemed to think that it was OK. He didn't voice any objections that day or the next day when we were leaving. He did not say, and I never got the impression, that he thought Mom would be better off in a nursing home even though he would have had every opportunity to say that while we were talking. I know you have mentioned in the past that he says that to you occasionally but, given the opportunity to say it to me, he never did. That said, I'm sure he sees the deterioration that we all see and knows that it might be inevitable if she gets a lot worse.
I talked in general terms about the financial aspects of all of this and that his financial disclosure would likely be needed under various scenarios. We also talked about the fact that outside entities, like the IRS, Medicare, banks, would look at he and Mom as a "married couple" for all sorts of reasons and that anything the family wanted to do would have to involve him as well. He seemed to understand all of this.
Have you, or anyone else, heard something different from Morris or did you expect something a lot different? It wouldn't be the first time I've walked away from a conversation thinking one thing and the other person thinking something else. Is there something more specific I could answer that I haven't focused on here? Also happy to follow up with Morris with a more direct question if you want me to.
** I would vote that we review the nursing care options and go through the process of selecting a place now (or at least narrowing down the options) so that we're prepared when/if the time comes that we have to take this step. How do you all feel about that?
I agree that the nursing-home-selection/preparation work needs to be done now.
on one of my visits, I'd like to visit any nursing-homes that are being considered, so if anyone knows any specifics, pls post.
I think we need to take nursing home care steps immediately and this will impact Morris immediately. How he responds to the nursing home application will determine how we proceed and it might prove to be very difficult as we sort through how it will be paid for. When he comes to the realization that the law says (and as a subset, all of society) that as long as they are married, it is his obligation, I am certain that we will run into some tough discussions. I am not saying that we all don't have some obligation here but not all of us are in the position to contribute money.
I think we need to move beyond just choosing a place and actually make application. That does not mean we have to move her in, but we need to be ready to do that - and to know how we are going to pay for it, including how we are going to pay for the first 12 months of private pay.
I vote for choosing and applying as soon as possible. Unless waiting periods are so short that it won't matter. At this time, we don't even know that.
It does not surprise me that he says different things to me than to you. He has all along and maybe its determined by the context of the discussion. I personally believe that he is now in the "laissez faire" mode meaning that he is just going to leave it alone and go along with whatever we say but their "marriage" is a bottleneck for us so in my opinion we need to force the issue.
I understand that this is easy for me to say since I am speaking from a distance. I'm just voicing my opinion and not second guessing anyone's actions. If I were there, and if I could be there, I'd want to be taking more action to get Mom qualified and at least on a waiting list, particularly if she starts to require nursing care which seems to me where she is heading.
Anyone have any suggestions on what I can do from here? Sorry if I seem intense over this, but I am. Nothing personal.
Here's my take on this: a year ago Morris told me she needs to be in a nursing home. It was said in a moment of high frustration during the time he was the primary caregiver, a job that was overwhelming for a 90 year old man. Now I think it's all the same to him, home or nursing home,it doesn't really matter now that he's not the primary caregiver. But he does need to know what he and we are up against in getting Mom into one. It sounds like we're moving towards that we just don't know specifics yet.
Oh, and one more comment, we're looking for info on nursing homes, impact on spouse and us, not really working to "move her into one," right? I ask this because my understanding of the "action plan" is keeping her at home per her wishes as long as we can. Hence the discussion about a live-in primary care giver, trading room and board for primary care, right? Rose's grandmother lived her last days in a private home with two or three other old persons, not a large nursing home, just food for thought. (My experiences with nursing homes has been mostly negative.)
I believe that we are absolutely moving towards a nursing home or some type of nursing home setting. It will take a lot of time and red tape to even get her qualified. Do I want to move her into one? No.
Is Morris key to our ability to plan? Yes. We might as well take the steps all the way up to the point of actually making the move. What is wrong with that?
What truly are our OTHER choices anyway? I think that if Mom is now not able to even get herself from the bed to the bathroom without someone lifting her (see Tom's e-mail from yesterday) then we are on our way to losing Visiting Angels and maybe even Maggie and Gwen. I don't know. I don't think that I could do the constant lifting....I am getting old too.
She is developing bedsores. Thank God Maggie is enough of a pro to take notice - but it could get really out of hand really fast without professional nursing care. Nurses are held accountable at nursing facilities for the development of these things since they are preventable. Do we have a plan in place to prevent them? Do we trust that the people we have there can do that?
If there was a private home to move her into that would be great - but it will cost us and cost us a lot. More than the 24 hour a day care that we are now paying for only 5 days a week. And where are these places down there? Around here, they cost more than $90,000 a year.
And as for the live-in, how do you find someone who will live there and get only room & board for the exchange of care? What would you pay them? How do you pay someone less than $8.00 an hour? Would we want someone in the house that would actually agree to it? Would we rely simply on "recommendations" or our own ability to interview to make a determination about "the right person?" I just don't see that as a reality. Would be nice, and I've been wrong before, but is it probable that we can put that together - and monitor/manage it? A live-in typically lives in when there is a family member present as well. They support the efforts of the family member. They don't live there without 24 hour supervision.
What about when you or I or someone else is there on the weekend. Are we living side by side with them? Are we working on the weekends anymore? Won't this cost us more money? They will be our tenants and we will have obligations to them as landlords. And once they are living there, they will have rights to stay even if we want to kick them out.
I don't know. I must be crazy. No one else seems to be concerned about the actual process we have to go to to get her into a nursing home - and the very real complication of her marriage to Morris. If he refuses to live up to his obligation, how are we going to pay for the first 12 months of nursing home care - which will most likely be in the $60,000 range?
And by the way, I agree with you about Morris. He has completely separated himself from any real obligation to his wife - that's why we have to force the issue now.
At least when he was pushing nursing home care, he was engaged. The very real conversations I had with him most recently (July) at Westminster included his comments about the disagreements (yes - he talks about us all and not so nicely) in the family and how bad that was and that he was going to stay out of it, that he had said long ago what he thought needed to happen. I don't know. I think Morris reveals himself to people differently. We all do that, I guess.
Enough of my thoughts. Maybe no one else thinks that this scenario could go on as long as I think it could go on. But this game is not over yet and just what I predicted would happen earlier this summer when I raised the nursing home question is happening: the level of care Mom requires is increasing. She is not necessarily out of it mentally, but she is certainly out of it physically, and what are we prepared to do to take care of it?
Within the next 2 weeks, expect to see lots of information about reverse mortgage. I am getting this done.
E. - the reverse mort activity is crucial ... thx for moving out on this.
All - specific choices of next-step-care need to be defined, but I suspect they are already known, just not published (i.e., the place H. was checked into post-surgury and the places that Ti. visited with Morris).
I agree that as many steps prior to check-in need to be done now ASAP (pardon the caps, not yelling)... the complexity of this (legal/FedStateIns stuff) looms large in my mind as I do not have a grasp of all the details and am not even sure I have the capacity to understand it all.
The move towards check-in will help us understand/deliverOn all the legal/FedStateIns requirements.
I agree that a live-in arrangement poses lots of risk (fyi - have obtained advice from a friend with connections about getting background check done) I don't see us following thru on this as it is all uncharted waters so to speak - lots to know about legal matters that apply.
A small, private home sounds like an option, the SC cost may be less than NJ cost. Our VA Pam mentioned to me one time that her mother ran one of these, perhaps Pam knows of others in the area that could be looked into.
The other piece to this is hospice ... will it play a part in our efforts. I will do what research I can on what is available in the area.
that's about all I can offer right now, not sure how to contribute to the effort currently ... seems the immediate need is to line-up some candidate homes, understand check-in requirements.
thx v much.
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